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Talk:Lord of Casterly Rock
Inheritance Considering Westeros seems to follow common Christian medieval inheritance laws, and considering the current ruler of the Westerlands is a woman, it makes no sense that's how the land was inherited. It would make much, much more sense if Kevan Lannister inherited. He is male, but more importantly has one male heir of the Lannister dynasty, as opposed to Cercei's children who are all by law of the Baratheon line. It would make more sense for Tywin to want the land to go to Kevan than to Cercei. KarstenO (talk) 14:04, April 21, 2015 (UTC) You should have read our article on Inheritance laws: Lordship#Inheritance_laws No, that is not how inheritance laws work in Westeros, or in medieval Europe. Women inherited land all the time in Medieval Europe. In Westeros, the way it works is that it goes through each sibling's bloodline, and only once their bloodline is exhausted does it go to the next sibling. Only once all of Tywin's children are dead (Jaime, Cersei, Tyrion), AND all of their children (Mycella, Tommen), would Kevan then inherit as Tywin's younger brother. A younger brother (Kevan) only inherits after his older brother's bloodline is exhausted (even grandchildren are dead). This has nothing to do with surviving male heirs. Lands were often inherited through an only surviving daughter. Indeed, as we saw this wee, House Stokeworth only has two daughters and no sons in the current generation. This has nothing to do with "Baratheon line" - if Cersei's children are ultimately Tywin's only blood heirs (if Tyrion dies without issue), yes, they also inherit the Lannister titles. Now, granted, sometimes they make special directions in their will and so forth, but that's beside the point. The show itself explained this clearly in Season 3. As Tywin's daughter, Cersei is behind her younger brother Tyrion in line of succession, but ahead of her uncle Kevan and any of Kevan's children (Lancel). Jaime was the eldest son but abdicated his right to inheritance when he joined the Kingsguard, meaning that by rights Tyrion was his father's heir - but Tywin bluntly said he wanted to disinherit him (holding out hope he could eventually manipulate Jaime leaving the Kingsguard - which was basically his goal for nearly 20 years). In short: a lord's daughter inherits ahead of the lord's younger brother. I don't know why you assumed it was the other way.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 14:33, April 21, 2015 (UTC) Yeah that is how the common law worked but in the late Middle Ages you got the Salic law which became increasingly sexist, preferring anyone male over even very closely related females. This relates to the Hundred Year's War, a war partially coinciding with the main inspiration the War of the Roses. The main dispute was over who would be the rightful heir to France, someone who was closer related to the original king but descended from a woman, or someone who was further related to the original king but descended from a man. Anyway, it's good to know Westeros seems to prefer the more traditional line of succession, though really I doubt how a real noble in Tywins position would have delegated succession in actual history. Especially since he seems pretty sexist himself and seems to understand how bad Cersei is with power in many cases. He's all about "the family name", and for some reason I'm not exactly sure if he'd be okay with Baratheons inheriting despite the fact that nothing really changes. He seems too prideful for that. Even still, Tommen is just a boy and again, Cersei isn't as intelligent as she thinks herself to be. As such, I can more easily see him give it to his brother especially as he didn't know Lancel was part of a sect and had sex with his daughter. KarstenO (talk) 00:52, May 6, 2015 (UTC) I have a Master's Degree in Medieval History: there is was no such thing as "Salic Law". That was popularized by the Henry V Shakespeare play...within which, the English themselves point out that the French basically made up "Salic law" as an excuse to pretend that the English king didn't have any right to the throne of France through female line descent. I don't think you know what you are talking about. You also consistently misspell "Cersei" as "Cercei", please correct this.--The Dragon Demands (talk) 01:24, May 6, 2015 (UTC) I thought it was called Salic law, but it could simply have a different name. I just today found out the Iron Throne alone uses the succession law I'm referring to. Literally any male of that dynasty will go before any female. It was used in history, definitely. Maybe it is called Semi-Salic succession? I'm really not sure, it's all semantics. The point is that it was practiced. I really don't know where you're getting it from that Salic Law is somehow fictional and purely created as a plot device for Shakespeare. The existence of the single writer-poet called Shakespeare himself is less likely than Salic Law not being real. In many cases, even if women were allowed to inherit land of any substance, they were nearly obligated to marry so that her husband was able to reign in her name (jure uxoris). This is also something seemingly absent in the universe of I&F, and if it weren't, something else Cersei (thank you for the correction) would have to struggle with. I don't think it helps the discussion if you are merely telling me what a layman I am on this topic and bringing forward points with very little proof. I very much respect your academic background, though, and I'd be glad to hear what your arguments are. KarstenO (talk) 03:13, May 6, 2015 (UTC)